Karsten Wenzlaff, Advisor
August 26th, 2025
NCFA Canada | Mar 22, 2019

About this episode: On this Episode of the Fintech Friday's Podcast, our host Manseeb Khan sits down with Richard Carleton the CEO of the Canadian Securities Exchange. They chat about the future of Canadian Securities, STO's and Icelandic mining being the next big thing. Enjoy! (Transcript)
GUEST: RICHARD CARLETON, CEO, Canadian Securities Exchange (Linkedin)
BIO: Richard Carleton was appointed CEO of the Canadian Securities Exchange in July 2011. During his tenure, Richard and the CSE team led a re-capitalization of the exchange in 2012-2013 and established relationships with key influencers in the Canadian securities industry and beyond. These efforts positioned the exchange to take a leading role in the provision of public capital to entrepreneurial companies; from 2014 on, the CSE set a series of records for new listings, capital raised by issuers and trading turnover. An early advocate for the cannabis industry, the CSE is now the global exchange leader in the listing of issuers in the space. Recognized by the Financial Post Magazine as one of Canada’s “25 Cannabis Industry Power Players”, and a recipient of the American Trade Association’s “Captain of Industry” Award in November 2018, Richard is a frequent speaker on early stage company finance issues around the world.
Intro: Welcome fintech Friday's a weekly podcast brought to you by the National Crowdfunding and Fintech Association of Canada and partners.Covering all things fintech block chain be AI and alternative finance.
Manseeb Khan: Richard, thank you so much for sitting down with me today. I'm super excited to jump right in.
Richard Carleton: My pleasure. Even if it's not fantastastical. But, you know, it's obviously a pretty high bar to hit. So, I'll do my best.
Manseeb Khan: I'm pretty sure you could definitely hit that bar. So, Richard, just for the audience. Could you give us a real quick rundown of a little bit of your background in the Canadian Securities Exchange and a little bit more about you, because you do have a really extensive career when it comes to Canadian securities. I mean, you have a 30 plus year career run and could just give us a little bit more of like the highlight reel.
Richard Carleton: I was going to say that. Yeah, that that was sort of a polite way of saying that I'm you know, I'm an old guy. But to that, thank you for that. I guess the quick thumbnail sketch of the Canadian Securities Exchange first is that we will shortly be celebrating our 15th anniversary as an exchange in Canada. We are obviously one of a small handful of exchange facilities that we have in Canada, including the Toronto Stock Exchange, the TSX Venture Exchange, NEO, and Nasdaq Canada. And that's pretty much it. And the exchange was originally conceived as a way to provide a lower cost of capital for early stage or growth stage or venture companies or whatever you want to call them, to basically secure growth capital from the public markets, potentially as an alternative to venture capital, private equity, angel financing and so on. But to do so in a way that, you know, provided a better, I guess, less friction in raising that needed growth capital for early stage businesses. And, you know, it's obviously been a long history to get where we are within a few weeks. I think we'll be listing our 500th company, which is an amazing milestone for a startup organization to meet. And we have, I think certainly over the last three, four years each year set a record for the amount of capital that's been raised by companies listed on the exchange. Last year, for example, it was more than five billion dollars that was that was raised on the Canadian Securities Exchange by listed companies. Well, the headline is basically driven by the cannabis industry, particularly the cannabis industry in United States. Most recently, we've also been very well done, very well with the mining industry, oil, and gas exploration, as well as the fintech space. We have a lot of fintech companies that have joined the exchange over the last two, three years. Again, seeking growth capital, looking to get name recognition in the marketplace and work with companies in a variety of capacities to supply technology or advise them on how to become more efficient in their own operations. So, by implementing different aspects of whether it's a block chain or some other fintech related products. So that's basically where the exchange positions itself. You know, myself, I'm you know, I guess I'm a recovering lawyer is how we describe it. I was in private practice briefly in Toronto before joining the legal Department of the Toronto Stock Exchange. As I was going to say in the end during the last century and worked legal capacity for the exchange for a while. And then I jumped over onto the business management side of the organization to run market data index. I was heavily involved in the creation of the first ETF that listed in Canada and I ran the ETF program at the Toronto Stock Exchange. I also ran the index program and worked with Standard and Poor's to create the new composite index and 60 indexes as they were back in 98 or ninety-nine of their bets. Following my career with the Toronto Stock Exchange, I worked in Toronto and New York City as a consultant with a variety of organizations. Generally speaking, you know, in a business development role and joined the Canadian Securities Exchange actually there advisory committee when they were being set up in about 2000 to join the organization on a full time basis in 2006 to launch something called Pure Trading, which was the first continuous auction market facility to trade TSX and venture listed stocks. There are now many, many venues that that are doing the same thing, became CEO of the organization back in 2011. So that's pretty much, I guess, a quick rundown of an old guy on Bay Street.
Richard Carleton: I mean, again, like I mentioned before, like you do have a really incredibly extensive background. I mean, I'm pretty sure not many people would know that you actually had you have a really big hand to play when it comes to towards the entire like Payment Rail, like the entire rail line, you help set it up and actually make it what it is today and make and creating it what it's going to become in the future with the new. Well, actually, this is this is not this is not announced yet . But could you talk a little bit more of the Canadian Securities Exchange blockchain enabled clearing and settlement facility. You did help set up the original one, what is it going to look like now with block chain enablement ?
Richard Carleton: Yes. So, we looked we made an announcement in February 2018 that we are looking to launch a clearing and settlement facility that was based on block chain. Now, you know, the plumbing itself is kind of interesting, but actually it's really not the most important aspect of it. Really, what we're looking to do is to provide a regulated framework really within the context of the existing securities industry infrastructure, if want to call it that, for people to list tokenized securities and have them trade in a conventional exchange. Right. So, they would trade these tokens using their existing brokerage accounts, whether it's a full-service broker or discount broker, what have you. But most importantly, that the in effect, all of the deeply unsexy back office stuff would be handled on a, you know, by a new clearing and settlement agency that would use block chain to provide what we call near real time or real time clearing and settlement to dramatically reduce the friction and costs associated with what's called in the industry entitlements management. So that's essentially how dividends and another benefits flow from the issuer to the, you know, the ultimate shareholder. And it also gives, of course, to the companies themselves, the issuers. So, some important advantages in terms of proxy voting and shareholder communications and the ability to conduct very targeted investor relations, because the visibility into who they're, you know, who the real shareholders are is just so much better than it is with the legacy or existing infrastructure. So, which, of course, we currently use. So, I guess it is. Now, we've had some criticism from folks on the blockchain industry that we're not being aggressive enough to disinterment the brokers and transfer agents and some of the other folks that are involved in the current securities processing field. But, you know, from our perspective, we can attack the biggest sources of cost and risk and inefficiency by actually working within the system as opposed to having to create a whole separate infrastructure to provide a safe and regulated trading environment for these token securities.
Manseeb Khan: Awesome. I mean, yeah. Know it's definitely going to help clean up. I guess for lack of a better word, like a cleanup, a lot of the inefficiencies that are currently that some people are currently facing with the payment rails. And I mean when it comes to, like you said, some that some people in the blockchain are saying you guys aren't aggressive or not aggressive enough. This is only just the beginning. Right. I mean, it's still very ambiguous when it comes to what we are kind of looking for in the blockchain space like this is we're very, very early on. So., I don't know to them. I guess no, that's right.
Richard Carleton: Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say that my crystal ball is perfect by any stretch of the imagination. And you're right. I mean, we're unleashing something. And it's you know, it would be fascinating to see, you know, where it ultimately winds up. But again, you know, doing this is entirely consistent with the, you know, the mission that I talked about at the outset. And that is, you know, we are looking to reduce the cost of capitals for early stage companies. And if you think about it, I mean, again, perfect example. When we made our announcement, you know, we had a lot of companies come up with some very interesting and novel securities that they would put in into a smart contract that would then list on the exchange. But within a few days, we actually had, you know, some very traditional industries like mining, for example. And, you know, one of the ways that the most common forms of mining finance for a company that finds a commercial grade deposit and for the sake of argument, they need 500 million dollars to put that, you know, to put a mine into production. Typically, what they will do to finance that is not actually issue more shares to the public or do a secondary offering, for example, to raise that money. Instead, what they'll do is negotiate a royalty agreement with a private equity fund that are that are set up. And there's a lot of these funds that are set up to provide this kind of financing. But because the mining company really has the, you know, the lower hand here, you know, they really are dealing with a small group of thousand-pound gorillas in this space. The terms and conditions on that royalty are very, very hard for the heap. You know, the junior company to swallow, but they have no choice. If they can take that royalty instrument. So basically, a contract to pay a certain percentage of the of the revenues that are generated by the mine or, you know, actually in species. So, in some cases, you know, they'll give you a gold, for example, in return for the financing. You'll be able to market that deal to the public through that by using a smart contract, a tokenized security, if you will, at a considerably more advantageous price than you'll be able to do with the thousand-pound private equity gorilla. And as I say, within days of making the announcement, we had a number of folks from the mining industry say this is fantastic. This will really cut our cost of capital. It will make our financing activities significantly more easier. And look at it from the investor perspective. These are very high-quality securities that generate a regular stream of income that they're not available to the typical retail investor these days. So instead of having a few rich guys that run a private equity fund benefit from this sort of investment opportunity, we're able to actually, you know, take it to a much, much broader retail investing audience. So, we think we think that this is just a phenomenal thing for the company to do, potentially.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. I mean, nobody would have really thought of like, hey, the fact that you guys are rolling, rolling this out, mining companies is definitely not the first thing that comes to mind. That's. That's definitely news for me. Like for fintech companies. Sure. That makes sense. Cannabis companies? Absolutely. But for mining companies, That's. Wow, that's a very interesting beast to be interested in the whole blockchain innovation stuff that you guys are doing.
Richard Carleton: Yeah, you know, you're right. As I say, it actually caught me by surprise because I figured it would be a, as you say, folks that were coming from the blockchain at the crypto world, who would be the end of this year. But interestingly enough, it's. It may, in fact, be all facets of the junior capital space in Canada.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah. No, I agree. I think it's if anything, this is like a really happy surprise. This is just going to help. Especially coming from more of the fintech angle and the crypto angle. It's just going to give more market validation of like, hey, you know, like we have old school mining companies that are actually willing to back us up and they see they can actually the potential. And it's so it's just going to help further along the agenda. Right. So, I guess with I mean, like up until last year and this year, I mean, STOs have been a huge hype around the industry right. How we're going to have the security tokens, they're going to come in there, can help stabilize a lot of the inefficiencies that is going on the market. So, I guess what can we expect from the Canadian Securities Exchange? What does this like? What does a security token mean to them? And what can we kind of expect coming or just moving for right now, that we have this new blockchain thing we can see that we're going to expect an STO right?
Richard Carleton: Well, so I tell people who. Now I get phone calls probably still three to five times a week with somebody who wants to get launch, you some kind of tokenized security. We can list a tokenized security tomorrow. It's a security where the Canadian Securities Exchange, we list securities, we trade securities. But until we have this clearing and settlement facility up and running, it will have to clear and settle using the legacy infrastructure in Canada, which has operated actually by our competitors at the TMX Group through the Canadian Depository for Securities. That means T plus two clearing and settlement. It means that the dealers have to post capital against a trade failure during that three-day period before the trade ultimately settles. That means the old fashioned and very inefficient means of managing entitlements. So, the company pays the transfer agent, who pays CDS, who pays the dealer who ultimately pays the holder of the security. And through that chain, there's often broken telephone and payments and other benefits go astray. There's also, of course, no visibility for the issuer in terms of who their shareholders are ultimately, because the securities are all held in what you call street names. So, you know which investment dealer holds the stock, but you don't know who the actual holder is, for example, unless, of course, they're willing to tell you. So, as I say, we could, you know, give people a head starts and get security tokens into the marketplace and trading at this point. But we're not really addressing the or providing the benefits that the security tokens will ultimately do to say everybody on the chain, whether it's the issuer, the market participants like the dealers and us and of course, the investors, you know, we're just not there yet until we provide this clearing and settlement facility. So, where we are in that project is, we are in the final stages of doing our internal quality assurance testing. The system is actually integral to our trading system. So, it's not a separate bolt on that's coming from a third-party vendor. I mean, it is coming from a third-party vendor. But as I say, this is part and parcel of our world technology stack. It will be an essentially a private iteration of an Ethereum protocol-based network. It will live behind what I'm calling the securities industry firewall. So that's the existing network that we have in place to manage orders and trade instructions and so on. It's of course, we use, you know, essentially state of the art, hardware and software and encryption technologies to provide as good a level of security as we possibly can. We'll be and again, for the more technically adept folks listening, which of course doesn't include me yet, we because it's behind the firewall and the access to the each of the wallets is permission by us and the information is encrypted. We're turning the hashing to zero so that we won't have the kind of scaling issues that currently plague, I guess some of the folks that are using public iterations of blockchain technology. So, we're confident that we would be able to handle a very significant number of transactions per second, for example, without compromising the performance of the system. And the basically, again, as I said, the dealers will then have the wallets themselves, which they'll be able to factionalize down to the individual beneficial account level. So, we will shortly be putting this system into our external test environment, working with a select group of investment dealers and service providers in Canada to basically identify what additional work and integration that they need to do going into the project. We know there are two big gaps that have to be addressed. The first one is that, you know, the digital representations of the tokens will get to the wallet. Then the dealer will have to figure out how to update the client's systems. Sorry that the client account system and the dealer, of course, is also going to have to get cash into the system to backup orders so that if we're going to have a real time clearing and settlement capability, the cash has to be provided at the time that the order goes into the goes into the system. So, having the dealers figure out how to get their own cash systems, which are currently batch based, some of them are written in assembler and those are the newer ones. There's probably some cobalt kicking around in there. So, these systems date back to the late 70s, early 80s for many of the large banks. They'll have to fit, as I say, figure out how to take their legacy cash management systems and think about them in more of a or adapting them to a in effect, a real time payments world. I thought, you know, having worked on a lot of projects with the Bay Street firms over the years that we were, you know, really going to get kicked in the shins over this thing, that there would be a lot of reluctance to support this work. I'm happy to say that I was 100 percent wrong. The dealers are extraordinarily interested in pursuing this project. They see the That's, you know, not just for themselves, but, you know, for the rest of the pieces of the puzzle. You know, we've had very enthusiastic support from a number of leading members of the dealer community to work on the project so that the feedback is I say to date has been just phenomenal. And as I said, we're going to we're going to get a lot of support from the dealer community to see this project through to completion. Probably over the course of the next year.
Manseeb Khan: Right. I mean, that's exciting news. I mean, the fact that you didn't get the fact that they expected a pushback and getting kicked in the shines that you didn't. That's not know itself. That's very exciting.
Richard Carleton: I was very happy about that.
Manseeb Khan: I mean, hey, I would be too honest. Like I would 100 percent like a guy like the mining thing of like what? You OK? Sure. Yeah. No, for sure. This is you know, you could totally use this too no problem. It's crazy. So, you did. You did touch on a little bit. What does this kind of mean in the burden reduction sense? I mean burden reduction has been a topic that we've had on the show a couple times. I guess now with this new technology that you guys are rolling out, what could this mean for burden reduction for companies?
Richard Carleton: Well, as they say from the company perspective. You know, this enables them to basically roll out new and interesting securities. Which, you know, have the opportunity or possibility of cutting the cost of capital for the for the issuers. It also gives them the opportunity to think about or look at, you know, new ways of proxy voting and shareholder communication, because if you're able to basically have that direct channel to the individual beneficial shareholder, why not use it? Instead of printing off three inches of paper, the management circular, the proxy forms, the glossy brochure, and all of that stuff that you get. I mean, that's extraordinarily wasteful. And, you know, really how many people actually go through that information in any great detail. And as I say, I think that, you know, the exciting thing is that it does take a lot of deals. So, a lot of business structures that get done in the private equity setting. I mean, again, this this gets away from, you know, sort of the traditional type securities. But, you know, the everybody knows about, you know, Michael Jackson's having purchased the, you know, the Beatles back catalogue. And then collecting all of the royalties associated with, you know, advertising and. And, you know, radio play. And all of that stuff. You know, other ways that you monetize that, you know, that catalog. And you know that really only feasible using present technology as a private equity deal, because, you know, there's only one holder of that security. Basically, it was it was Michael Jackson. Right. Whereas, you know, if you have smart contracts and you use that to securitize the back catalog of an artist, let's say, you know, the smart contract can actually take care of a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of managing that. You know, the royalty payments through to the beneficial shareholders. So, it gives artists, for example, you know, again, an opportunity to reach a broader potential investment audience that in all likelihood, more attractive terms than the private equity guys will shake you down for. And it gives them know pretty new and novel investment opportunity for retail investors. As I say, you know, it's not the rich folks that typically play in the private equity space, but an opportunity for all retail investors to participate in that new and interesting investment opportunities. And then, of course, when you get really down the road a bit and, you know, we've got these entitlements processes set up better, you know, if the artist, for example, like if you hold a token that, you know, is a security and somebody is back catalog, you know, you can use that. The blockchain, of course, to send them know concert ticket offers. You dropped a video or, you know, new track or whatever. You can send it to people, and they can listen to it for a couple of days before, you know, like the Mission Impossible thing at all. You know, kind of blows up to ether bits or something. So, you know, it's really is. Yeah. But I mean, these are the sorts of things that, you know, we will provide the infrastructure and we'll sit back and let smart people figure out, you know, cool things to do with it. You know, that that's actually the most fun of. All right. Is to you know, we will create the canvas and we can let the you know, the artists paint it that that's really what we're trying to do here right now.
Manseeb Khan: That's. I mean, you guys people at over at the Canadian Securities Exchange , they have some smart people to look at that confused. He's just he's just joking, so on offence to anybody that's listening.
Richard Carleton: Yeah. Don't get me wrong, guy. But I know artists.
Manseeb Khan: I'm just kind of like, got to cover my ass. And like. Well, everyone's smart. You were good.
Manseeb Khan: So aside from the amazing, you know, upcoming technology that you guys are working on, what else can listeners be excited about coming out of the Canadian Security Exchange you guys? I mean, you guys have been a huge focus on the cannabis industry last year and this year, I mean is there anything else that we could be expecting?
Richard Carleton: Well, you know, I always tell people when they say, oh, you guys are focused on the cannabis space. We're not focused on any space. What we are is a reflection of what transactions are getting financed in the industry. Right. So last year, a lot of cannabis deals went public and they went public on the Canadian Securities Exchange. That's great, right? Yeah. Next year. Who knows what it might be, but? But I could sit here and say, you know. Yeah. Well, we'll focus on I don't know. Mining in Iceland. You know what? We'll go to Iceland. We'll do lots of roadshows and we'll pitch, you know, Icelandic Miners or whatever. It doesn't matter what we do. It's all about what investors are prepared to put their money behind. And as I say, we've obviously had a great run with the cannabis space last couple of years. And as I said, I don't want to downplay the mining and the fintech industries as well. You know, they've contributed a lot of companies to the up to the Canadian Securities Exchange over the last couple of years. So, you know, we've certainly we've seen certainly some shifts in the cannabis space, even, you know, people are looking more at the United States as a as an investment opportunity as opposed to companies that are focused solely in Canada, for example. Again, I think for me on the fintech space, we've definitely seen a shift away from companies that we're focused on supporting or having some angle in the cryptos space versus, you know, coming up with real applications for real businesses. You know, whether it's blockchain or other efficiencies that can be brought to the payment system or other health-tech and insurance tech and all of those sorts of things. But again, you know, we can we can say whatever we want. It actually doesn't matter because it's really all about what the you know, what the investing public are supporting and trading.
Manseeb Khan: Of course, I love it. I love it. I mean, you know, I'm super excited to kind of see what this year big industry is going to be like. You said last year, cannabis. This year it could be Icelandic mining for God knows.
Richard Carleton: You know, I have nothing against Icelandic miners, by the way. But yeah, I was simply using that as an extreme example.
Manseeb Khan: I mean, I don't know. I don't know. They've been doing some incredible work there in Iceland. So, I don't know. I'm just so good. So, Richard, to wrap it up, we'll read the best way for listeners to either contact you or the Canadian Securities Exchange. Would it be through Snapchat, email, like. carrier pigeon, smoke signaling how we would contact you guys?
Richard Carleton: Well, we're very active on social media and it should follow us on, you know, your choice of Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. And what's the one I'm missing? Twitter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Twitter. I'm a I'm a Facebook refusenik, though, so. But, you know, I will then and I'm also not a registered user of Twitter, although, you know, we do have the company account periodically, although I'll sneak in that way. Mm hmm. But that's a good way. We also have a on our Web site, which is, you know, W W W the CSC dot com is our Web site. We have a section which is devoted to the blockchain project. Hasn't been updated for a bit, but we'll be putting some new information up there and we will be keeping people up to date in terms of the progress that we make. Which will be, we hope, quite a lot over the next three, four months. Then we're going to go quiet for a little bit. When I deal with the regulators and convince them that we know what we're doing and that we've anticipated all of the questions and issues that they have with the operation of the system. And, you know, my coordinates are, you know, for better or for worse, are on the Web site and people can, you know, hit on me that way or, you know, by LinkedIn or various other social media.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah, lots of maybe in the future you might even though you might even be on Twitter. Who knows? We'll see.
Richard Carleton: No, no, that's not happening. I'm definitely not. I don't know. Maybe, but definitely, definitely not. Facebook.
Manseeb Khan: Richard, thank you so much for sitting down with today. And I mean, we're super excited, we're pretty much sitting on the edge of our seats, seeing what you guys are going to be doing over at the Canadian Securities Exchange
Richard Carleton: Me, too. OK. Thank you very much. it's a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah. No worries.
Outro : you've been listening to fintech Fridays brought to you by NCFA and partners. Tune in weekly for the latest fintech Friday podcast by subscribing to this channel. The National crowdfunding and FinTech Association of Canada is a non-profit actively engaged with social and investment fintech sectors around the globe and provide education research industry stewardship services and networking opportunities to thousands of members and subscribers. For more information please visit and see if a Canada dot org. Oh yea.
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NCFA Canada | Mar 8, 2019

About this episode: On this episode of the Fintech Friday's Podcast, our host Manseeb Khan sits down with Muhammad Rashid the CEO of Moregidge. They chatted about how to find a broker that will work for you, how they are revolutionizing the mortgage space and their plans for the future. - Enjoy!
HOST: Manseeb Khan, Fintech Friday's show host
GUEST: MUHAMMAD RASHID, Co-Founder and CEO, Moregidge (Linkedin)
BIO: Muhammad started his career at Flipp, a Toronto-based startup helping retailers digitize traditional circulars and re-imagine the weekly shopping experience. He built and scaled the operations team from 10 people to over 300 across 4 countries. He was also instrumental in developing user retention and retailer ROI strategies through content acquisition and promoting added utility within the mobile app. From there, Muhammad joined Sampler, working alongside manufacturers to distribute targeted, measurable samples directly to consumers. He lead the strategy and expansion of their logistics network into international countries including the UK, France, Italy and Germany. Muhammad is now the Co-Founder and CEO of Moregidge, focusing on reinventing the home-buying experience.
Intro: Welcome fintech Friday's a weekly podcast brought to you by the National Crowdfunding and Fintech Association of Canada and partners.Covering all things fintech block chain be AI and alternative finance.
Manseeb Khan: Muhammad thanks so much for sitting down with me today man.
Muhammad Rashid: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.
Manseeb Khan: For sure for sure. So, could you just for the five or six people that may not know essentially who you are and what your business is. Could you give us a little bit of a rundown of a little bit of your background Mohammed and what Mortgidge is?
Muhammad Rashid: Sure. Yeah. So, all sort of in my background though kind of lay the foundation and do some context on what it is we're building but I came from the tech space I worked from for a bunch of different startups. A lot of them are Canadian success stories like flip my co-founders for companies like Coinsquare, Sampler etc. And a lot of our experience was in building consumer facing technology. I also happen to be a mortgage agent as my side hustle you know kind of a common theme that everybody's got their own side also going. But being mortgage agent actually turned out to be pretty lucrative for me and that's where when I saw an uptick in my own volume, I sort of saw an opportunity to build a solution that helps empower primarily me as a broker to steal my business. They organized and helped work with my customers which when. They turn into the venture I do that we've got in front of us, so mortgage is essentially a digital mortgage platform designed for brokers specifically and we're helping them essentially connect and collaborate with their application. So, you know digitizing the entire end to end process everything from you know receiving a digital application collecting the documents submitting it to a lender and actually closing it and moving into that home. All that can be done on our platform from it. So that's what we're all about.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah that's awesome. I love the whole side hustle story. I mean you know I think everybody would go and everyone has one and like that's the amazing thing about like businesses I'm just like you know some of the past companies that I've interviewed of like you know a lot of their businesses now that are successful like now that I like to touch on what you guys are doing like you guys just closed out a pre-seed round. A lot of businesses start as a side house and then it slowly transitions into an actual hustle.
Muhammad Rashid: Yeah. Yeah, it's super exciting for us. I. The only reason I actually ever got into the mortgage like you know do mortgages as a side hustle. My parents for lack of a better word got screwed over you know with a mortgage broker way back when. And there's always going to be bad apples in an industry. But that was kind of the motivating factor for me to actually get my license and it turns out you know three hundred dollars three months and of course in your license to sell mortgages in Canada. And so that's scary but also good at the same time making the fact that you know I was licensed in three months to be able to do mortgages for anybody in Canada. So I was really through that experience that we got to where we are but yeah I was you know I attribute a lot of what we've been able to accomplish and achieve in the short succession to the careers I've had in the startup tech community and so you know I owe a lot of what we've been able to build to Flip to Coinsquare to Sampler because it was a lot of those experiences that serve as guiding principles for how we're shaping forming our platform and our company today.
Manseeb Khan: So yeah good. No that's incredible. So, I mean to harp on a little bit more on the mortgage space. Yeah essentially. Could you just give us a little bit more of what's your philosophy when it comes to mortgages? What are you guys trying to hopefully like revolutionizing the space and essentially why should listeners really care about the work you guys are kind of doing a Moregidge.
Muhammad Rashid: Yeah. If you think about it, you know anybody who ever is seeking out a mortgage or planning on purchasing a home their first inkling is you know I've got to go to a bank obtain a preapproval or apply for a mortgage. And that was kind of the primary medium or channel that people were going through. Now a lot of people realize that the brokers are simply an option in obtaining a mortgage. If you think about it, you know brokers are typically considered or they were considered taboo you know decades ago you really only went to a broker because you know you were getting declined everywhere else. You fast forward a few years people start to realize hey you know what brokers actually have optionality. They've got access to multiple lenders instead of just one. And it's by stroke of luck that the B20, the stress test and the new regulations coming into play making it that much more difficult for some of the lenders to you know the big five Canadian banks to approve mortgages which means more and more people are actually flocking to the broker channel to actually seek out approvals and increase the likelihood or chances of approval and so it's you know that's where we kind of see the shift happening between you know staying loyal to your lender or to your bank and actually people moving over towards the broker channel to actually obtain a mortgage. But there's actually this sort of underlying shift happening in the industry as a whole and so you know kind of put the size of it into perspective the mortgage industry is about 400-billion-dollar market. And I love throwing that number because a lot of people don't understand the magnitude of how important this is. And so, it's also one of the last sorts of industries that's seen little to no innovation in the last little while. And so, you've got a consumer who's shifting towards you know migrating towards digital experiences you know asking for more intuitive applications to help facilitate any other transactions. But you've got an industry that's slowly you know it's surrounded by red tape, regulations you know the lack of open banking in Canada are making things difficult to move in the right direction. And so you've got this industry that's kind of stagnated as a whole and so we saw an enormous opportunity to help leverage the data that's available and market an intuitive experience and essentially empowering the people who are trusted adviser in the space to help foster that migration of consumers not only moving away from banks over to brokers but also for people who are migrating towards wanting a digital experience to facilitate their mortgage the next time they're looking for a transaction.
Manseeb Khan: The fact that Canada's open banking rules and regulations like it is it is very strenuous is very it's very locked down. But you know it's I've said this a couple times on the show but like Canada is traditionally very conservative. And the fact that like Canada is now slowly starting to kind of open up its doors and start considering you know smaller fintech like you. And now it sucks but hopefully like in the later on a future like open banking would be more accessible. And it just going to make it that much more easier for Canadians to kind of not really know what they think mortgages don't have to go to a bank right. They can kind of go to guys like you. They can go to another mortgage broker or they can become one of their own. You know like mortgage their house if they want to spend three hundred dollars and three and three months of their time. But yeah no I mean like I think open banking is definitely a great conversation.
Muhammad Rashid: The have that like the whole industry sort of evolving wanting to move towards open banking that's kind of a byproduct of the way Canadian consumers behave. And so like I said we really early on took a look at the U.S. market try to understand what it looks like and we pivoted to focus on broker specifically because of the two things that we noticed in that survey and so the first one was the fact that you know consumers prefer to use more technology not solely technology on their next transaction. And so having a broker guide you through that process provides you with feedback really understand what it is you need and sort of develop or build a product or solution from any of the lenders they work with that's tailored to what you're looking for but the second part of it is the fact that you know there's an increasing trend of people moving towards brokers and so it's not only for the fact that brokers have an increased chance of approval but it's the fact that they've got optionality. They've got a different array of products that might better suit what I'm looking for. They can also offer me a TD product lower than what TD is offering it to me at. And they simply do that by buying down their commission. So, a lot of people who sort of hesitated to using a broker because they felt like they were shady or was there sort of last resort are now actually going to brokers first because they realize that they're actually the optimal choice and in having a conversation with whether they're seeking out their next mortgage.
Manseeb Khan: It definitely dresses like people's overall laziness of I mean I'm saying laziness, laziness and in a good way right. I like the fact that like think about it like OK I want to buy a house and I mean I'm recording out a Yspace Markham I'm so OK I'll buy if only buy a house and Markham I'm I got to go to a bank and I've got to sit down with got a book and a meeting with a mortgage broker that that's going to take who knows how long? Cool then has to go through my entire background make sure I have good credit. It feels like a daunting task right. Because like hey it should really be easier. Like if I want to buy a home let me just buy a home. I want to spend four weeks five weeks. God knows how long to like just to get in the process of getting a home. Finding somebody finding, a right broker that you know or finding a right bank that's going to really help me out. Right. Exactly.
Muhammad Rashid: And then you've got caught up in the fact that mortgage products themselves are complex and the fact that know there's prepayment privileges there might be higher penalties associate with specific product. And so you know put aside the fact that it's complex but if you've now got to research the different lenders their different offerings and some of these banks are actually only available to brokers think of the brokers as your Expedia you're going to search mortgage transaction through them and they're going to go out and farm out all the deals for you and find out what the best product that suits your needs is and so yeah when you when you get to the point that people are looking for convenience you know a broker is the first step in that process for somebody doing all the research and all the effort for you. And then we see ourselves as the medium or the channel to help take that to the next level in terms of digitizing the end to end process. And so, we layer on top of the brokers but that's how we see ourselves seamlessly working together with them.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah for sure and like you know I mean to speak on about the general consumers. I mean consumers are getting a lot more smarter right. Like we have so much access. I mean we have the Internet. We have a lot of access of information to understand like you in like an hour you can probably have a really good I like brass tacks of like a mortgage option be best for you according to your past credit history.
Muhammad Rashid: Yeah no I wholeheartedly agree. I think gone are the days where it takes you know eight weeks for you to get an answer on whether you're going to be approved and you're sitting their nail biting whether you're going to get approved or not. And so, you know access to data making things a lot easier. The turnaround times for underwriting timelines etc. You know getting down to instantaneously giving a responsive consumer whether they're approved. Yet the convenience factor is definitely a plus. But just having a response immediately and then having to of course correct to find another solution in quick succession is what's key here.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah. And it's kind of incredible like you know we have companies like you in the space that are educating not only like businesses and people in this space but you're educating people in general and like making them understand hey it's like this doesn't what to look for in a mortgage broker. These are the 10 tips to kind of you know like the education role that a lot of the businesses that are playing in the mortgage space like you said like you could do how much billion is in the mortgage space again. Four hundred. Yes. So.
Muhammad Rashid: So, the mortgage industry as a whole in Canada is about 400 billion. OK. The broker channel specifically represents 50 percent of that so 200 billion goes to brokers.
Muhammad Rashid: Which is which is which is just insane. Yeah. Exactly. Which is insane. That's a that's a stat that I'm sure not many people know. This create an incredible opportunity for everybody to like hey like this space is a lot of growth. Like you mentioned on the top of an episode of like you know like it's very like they haven't like the mortgage space hasn't really updated since. God knows how long. Right. And the fact that like there is like it should be like a tech implementation to make to make this entire mortgage process that much more easier and much more fluid and much more simpler for like the everyday consumer.
Muhammad Rashid: Exactly. Exactly. I think it's just the general lack of motivation in wanting to improve you know potentially one of the most profitable products for lending institution. But now you. But again, you know to your point you've got a much more informed consumer you've got the ability for them to shop these rates around you've got brokers who have access to banks that don't even face consumers. Yeah. And so be able to access those lenders who might offer me a better deal just because they don't have the brick and mortar is that some of these big five makes up about less of an overhead to offer me a better rate and so you know just like just like you've got fintech we're now heading into the lending space you've got more these different lending institutions popping up again through the broker channel that are giving consumers better access to you know rates better mortgage products but overall just a better consumer experience in obtaining a mortgage.
Manseeb Khan: No, I absolutely think so. I mean you guys did close a half a million-dollar pre-seed around what is I guess like what's the future look like for Moregidge. I mean is there something that us like we the listeners can kind of get excited about is there something that you know that you're really just you know dying to let the world know about?
Yeah. So yeah first of foremost is super exciting for us to close that round, we've got some investors that are pretty well entrenched in the Canadian tech community. So, you've got Goodnews ventures you've got MLA48 Fund you Hustle fund out there in Silicon Valley and all of them have been super instrumental in helping us get to where we are right now. What the future holds for us in terms of that fundraising round number one you've got an immediate opportunity to double down on our product and build a much better product for the brokers we're actually using it. And so, there's still some refinement that needs to happen there based on the feedback we get from them. But the bigger opportunity that exists in front of us is if you think about it from a consumer perspective when I go to purchase a home. Who am I talking to what I'm going through that transaction? I'm going to start with a broker. I'm going to talk to a realtor I might have to speak to an appraiser but I'm also going to speak to a solicitor and a lawyer that actually pulls on the transaction and so you've got all these different parties involved in the same transaction who are essentially collaborating offline anyways because they're sharing information between themselves. And so, where we see the bigger opportunity is to actually bring all these players in this in this transaction into an online ecosystem where they can you know easily collaborate with each other. But the net benefit is actually to the customer themselves and so the net friction for them is a lot less because I don't have to provide my ID or my documentation to four different parties. It's essential if they're collaborating on the same platform that flow of communication is a lot easier the flow of documentation and data is not much easier. Obviously assuming we've got to consent but the net benefits actually to the consumer and so you know we started with mortgage brokers because that was our domain expertise. We've got a waiting list of a couples hundred realtors ready to join our platform because the brokers themselves are bringing the Realtors on to help collaborate with them even more than what they're doing right now and so that's kind of the grander vision is building that end to end home buying journey. We focus on mortgages right now but there's obviously a much bigger opportunity in front of us.
Manseeb Khan: Right. And I guess how different the system would look to realtors would it be would it be comparable or.
Muhammad Rashid: Yeah. So, the good thing is that there's actually quite a bit of overlap in the way that mortgage brokers and realtors operate. And so, they essentially manage their book of business the same way. There’re a few specific features that they ideally be looking for so you know obviously the realtors are handling MLS agreements purchase and sale agreements a different set of contracts than a mortgage broker would do. But that's the primary Delta in how we shape the platform we've gotten really good feedback on them using our platform we're getting acquainted with it. There’re just a few minor tweaks to get us in the position where the real estate can actually use it as part of their day to day business. So, we're pretty close to unlocking that towards the second half of this year. But right now, we're primarily focused on brokers.
Manseeb Khan: That's awesome. That's awesome. So, I guess that when it comes to looking for a mortgage broker or when it comes to finding a mortgage broker what are like are tips looking for mortgage broker that we can rely on for Moregidge?
Muhammad Rashid: Yeah well, I'll give you my perspective. You know we've come across a bunch of different mortgage brokers. I think the ones that stand out are the ones who genuinely care about the relationship and are not on to actually push product. And so, you're going to see this shift happening in the industry as well where people are actually moving away from just the transactional model to more of a customer service-oriented model in that. They're really there to educate you like we're out in the industry educating people on using brokers, but the brokers need to educate consumers on what mortgage products are available at market. And so, education is a big part of it. But a bunch of different brokers that are actually now using different outlets like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter to educate the consumer base that's out there. So, education is a big part of make sure that your broker is informed, and knowledgeable reference points is a big back so don't hesitate to ask the broker for you know any of the previous clients they've worked with. Ask them for a one on one conversation understand their experience understand what they've gone through. Anybody who hesitates to introduce you to any of their previous clients that should be a red flag. But if they if they truly you know stand by their experience and share their expertise and a wealth of knowledge, they'd be happy to introduce you to anybody else and I think the last component is you know how willing they are to adapt and that's kind of the hardest one to gauge. But this isn't a plug for technology in any way but one of the biggest things we noticed is the people who are adopter technology are the people who are adapting with the industry as well and so they're the ones who want to understand how to make their consumers lives easier but they also want to educate themselves on the tools and the systems that are available to run their business a lot tighter to get access to better data and to be able to streamline the entire process and so you know look for four indicators you know somebody just using the bare minimum tools that are available on the market or they're actually taking it you know making the effort and taking the steps to make my life easier. So, my submission of documents is easier. Do they have an online digital application? Are they still making you fill out papers, so a bunch of those different indicators are good? A good way to assess whether a broker is the right fit for you. But a lot of it's really you know Brooke there's always going to be high trust relationships. We're try to use those three different key components to help evaluate whether the book is a good fit for you.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah, I like the if they don't let you have access to so in the past people that they helped out. Yeah there is something wrong with that, I'd question definitely. Yeah, I know for sure. I would be like wait hold up what are we doing here? I'm just trying to build a future. What are you doing? Yeah, I love it. I love it I love it So it's I mean it's a new year. What are you excited about in the space aside from the amazing work that you guys are doing over at Moregidge?
Muhammad Rashid: Yeah, I think in general just the direction that the industry is heading in I think you know we briefly touched on open banking but just as a whole you know you've got the different, you've got the consumer who's evolving towards a digital experience and they're wanting it. You've got brokers who are slowly adapting to leveraging technology. But you have the lenders themselves saying you know this is an opportunity for us to double down on building tech to streamline and process. So gone are the days where people said you know four to eight weeks for a mortgage transaction is the standard. There's no way of improving it. Everyone is actually challenging the status quo and saying you know there has to be a better way to do this. And so just that that general mentality in the industry is definitely positive even across the financial services industry. But beyond that you know one of the most exciting things for us is actually the Toronto tech community and so you know I just kind of a little shout out. But the fact that you know we came from tech startups like Flip, Coinsquare, Sampler we were part of some of these amazing cultures and helping grow these companies to the behemoths is that they are now but ever since we left that space and actually ventured out on our own you know the community has continued to be supportive of a lot of people I've helped you know reached out to us saying Hey do you want to chat over coffee will help you navigate you know sales and business development we'll help you navigate product management where obviously you know experience in those different functions but having the community offer a lending hand is really been a huge motivating factor for us and continue to develop what we're doing right now. And so that's one of the biggest things I'm thankful for. But it's also the thing that gets me excited to continue to build the company in Toronto. Yeah.
Manseeb Khan: No, I mean shout out to the Toronto tech community. These guys you know they're amazing for sure. I mean like the mind of. I mean the amount podcast leads and I get from that company then I sat down with like you talk to these guys get to do great stuff. It's definitely incredible. Yeah. I mean is there anything specifically open banking that you're excited about aside from mortgages? I know we definitely briefly touched about it like open banking is such a huge concept. I mean is it like five or six things that you might be like really excited about?
Muhammad Rashid: Yeah. Yeah. I've never done a few but really just the concept of open banking and the fact that there's much more free flowing information and access to data. I think that’s one of the key parts of open banking in that it's going to help further enable competition. And so, you know I kind of draw parallels to other industries where you know who doesn't get pissed off at their cell phone bill and say no there has to be a better contract available or I'm spending too much money on it. And so, the same applies to the financial services industry where you've kind of got the big five banks that have kind of dominated the industry for the loss of a while and so I actually see it in a positive light that there's motivation and an opportunity for these lending institutions to further refine their product offering and competition is healthy right. Helps you stay on your toes, it helps you know make sure that you're delivering the best solution to your customers and so open bank is actually going to be an opportunity to unlock that that healthy competition in the Canadian market especially because just giving again companies like us access to data obviously handling it in the right way but using that information to further promote better solutions better product better service for these customers is what's going to get everybody as a community driving towards better service and their customers. And so yeah, I actually see it in a positive light. I know a lot of people have varying opinions on it and I'm obviously biased because open banking helps our company, but I just think it's the general right direction for the entire industry in the entire financial services sector to be moving towards just help for the mountain foster that community in that healthy competition.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah and like open banking what it really does it really helps level the playing field. Right. Because like you mentioned like when you think of mortgages you think I'm going on bank the fact that you can go to an actual broker and to make that much of a less headache. That's amazing. Exactly you and taking that taking that concept and expanding it and putting it to other aspects of when it comes to banking like hey like if I want to find like a new insurance plan, I can do that. If I want to find a new savings plan, I can do it Like who has the best like if I want to get an investing. It just it really helps open up so many doors for consumers and for smaller fintech’s which is incredible because it just it just really levels out the playing field.
Muhammad Rashid: Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Your kind of heading towards this direction where all these different products and services are going to eventually start speaking to each other and so we're talking about optimizing that customer experience. Yeah, you're right. I'm going to start with my mortgage but hey, but I can also layer on home insurance. I can also package auto insurance and get a better discount, but you have all these different products in the system speaking to each other. It's only going to benefit the end consumer who's actually seeking out all these things. So yeah that's a step in the right direction.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah. And then it's going to slowly move towards of consumers kind of like doing everything just online not like an online supplement that should be. That's a very interesting conversation right there.
Muhammad Rashid: Exactly. Yeah. That's a topic in itself yeah.
Manseeb Khan: So, with that I just throw it on to you is there anything else you want to touch up on before we wrap this up?
Muhammad Rashid: Yeah. No, I think I think the biggest takeaway from this is just the education piece on the difference between a bank and a broker right. Well one of the things I'd like to quash is the negative perception of the negative connotation around the broker. And so like I said you know the common perception that a lot of even my former colleagues and a lot of people I speak to you know you only use a broker because everywhere else was declining or you know there's something wrong with your credit or something wrong with your income and that's why the reason you're using a broker. So I think the biggest takeaway for anybody listening to this is the fact that brokers again they offer you optionally they offer you an array of products that aren't available to the general public typically through some of the big lending institutions and so I actually encourage people to have conversations with brokers just to sort of feel out their options and see what's in front of them and compare that to what some of the bigger institutions are offering you. I think it'll be pretty clear that they'll see the benefit right away and again no don't talk to any broker take my advice and sort of you know do your research on the different brokers again. So, it's obviously a high trust relationship and this is somebody who is going to be helping you navigate one of the biggest transactions of your life. And so again do your due diligence just like you would with any other any other product or service you're looking to acquire or purchase. But yeah, I think that's the biggest takeaway is be open to working with a broker and I think definitely explore that channel if somebody is in the midst of purchasing a home or looking to refinance as well.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah awesome I love that. So, everyone either become your own broker or find or find one that loves you. Exactly. Exactly. I love it. I love it. So, Muhammad to wrap this up we'll be the best way for our listeners and to anybody that's looking to you know find a mortgage brokers what we'll be the best way to either contact you or Moregidge would have been through like email, Snapchat, smoke signal, raven?
Muhammad Rashid: No, we're across all social channels so we're on Twitter, we're on Facebook , We're on Instagram. We're pretty quick to respond that's actually a metric we track our typical response time is within 10 minutes. So, feel free to reach out to us either through our social channels or on our website. Moregidge dot com. I'd be happy to just have a conversation with anybody who is either a broker themselves or a consumer who's actually looking to engage with a mortgage broker we're happy to help anybody navigate those conversations.
Manseeb Khan: Awesome Muhammad thank you so much for sitting down with me today and I am so pleased to have you back on.
Muhammad Rashid: I appreciate it. Thanks so much.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah, no problem.
Outro : you've been listening to fintech Fridays brought to you by NCFA and partners. Tune in weekly for the latest fintech Friday podcast by subscribing to this channel. The National crowdfunding and FinTech Association of Canada is a non-profit actively engaged with social and investment fintech sectors around the globe and provide education research industry stewardship services and networking opportunities to thousands of members and subscribers. For more information please visit and see if a Canada dot org. Oh yea.
The National Crowdfunding & Fintech Association (NCFA Canada) is a financial innovation ecosystem that provides education, market intelligence, industry stewardship, networking and funding opportunities and services to thousands of community members and works closely with industry, government, partners and affiliates to create a vibrant and innovative fintech and funding industry in Canada. Decentralized and distributed, NCFA is engaged with global stakeholders and helps incubate projects and investment in fintech, alternative finance, crowdfunding, peer-to-peer finance, payments, digital assets and tokens, blockchain, cryptocurrency, regtech, and insurtech sectors. Join Canada's Fintech & Funding Community today FREE! Or become a contributing member and get perks. For more information, please visit: www.ncfacanada.org
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NCFA Canada | Feb 25, 2019

About this episode: On this episode of the Fintech Friday Podcast, our host Manseeb Khan sits down with Peter-Paul Van Hoeken the CEO of Frontfundr. They chat about crowd raising, drinking your own whiskey and the future of Canadian crowdfunding. Enjoy! (Transcript)
Host: Manseeb Khan, NCFA, Fintech Fridays show host
Guest: PETER-PAUL VAN HOEKEN, Founder and CEO, FrontFundr (LinkedIn)
BIO: Peter-Paul has over 15 years of experience in finance, investment management, and business consultancy. He's held multiple senior management positions with global banks including ABN AMRO Bank and Royal Bank of Scotland in the areas of corporate strategy, commercial and investment banking.
Upon relocating with his family to Canada in 2010, Peter-Paul worked as a consultant for several early stage companies and experienced the challenges that they face in attracting capital. He realized that venture financing was not leveraging technology and in 2013, Peter-Paul founded FrontFundr to address this challenge and take on the opportunity to create the New Capital Market, online and accessible to everyone. Peter-Paul also serves as a Director on the National Board of the Private Capital Markets Association of Canada (PCMA). He is an Advisor of the National Crowdfunding & Fintech Association Canada (NCFA) and Founder Member of the Institute for Blockchain Innovation (IBI). Peter-Paul holds a Master of Science in business economics and finance from Erasmus University Rotterdam, in the Netherlands.
TWITTER: @frontfundr, @petervanhoeken
Intro: Welcome fintech Friday's a weekly podcast brought to you by the National Crowdfunding and Fintech Association of Canada and partners.Covering all things fintech block chain be AI and alternative finance.
Manseeb Khan: I have the absolute pleasure of sitting out with Peter Paul. Peter Paul. Thank you so much for it. Oh, it's said I mean I've been super excited to have you on the show. For those who don't know you Paul is actually the CEO and Founder of FrontFundr. Peter Paul thank you so much for the now.
Peter-Paul Van Hoeken: Hi Manseeb it's a pleasure to be on your show.
Manseeb Khan: So, for the five or six people that may not know essentially who you are and what FrontFundr is could you just give us a quick rundown of a little bit of your background and a little bit of what FrontFundr.
Peter-Paul Van Hoeken: Sure. Yeah so, my name is Peter-Paul Van Hoeken and you can find our CEO of FrontFundr. My background is basically in finance. I worked for about eight nine years in banking in Europe relocated to Canada in 2010 and also moved on, moved away from the banking industry more down the entrepreneurial path and started working with small companies help them get ready to raise capital and connected with the prospective investors and so that that time was actually that wasn't an experience a time where I experience how challenging it is for small companies to raise capital and also how we're not using electronic means like the internet and digital technology to facilitate that whole process of connecting early stage companies with investors. So that's where the whole idea about FrontFundr essentially came from. And it was by doing already happening in other geographies like the U.K. Australia is essentially to bring investing in funding and an investment in young companies to bring it online and connect startups with the wider investor community essentially the public and that's called these days often investment, crowdfunding or equity crowdfunding and that is what friends are doing. We're currently Canada's leading online investment crowdfunding platform.
Manseeb Khan: I love your guys approach. I love the other Canadian companies I mean we definitely had some of the other crowdfunding and opening up the borders and just allowing everybody to kind of be able to invest in companies that shows in and of itself it just makes it that much more, the fact that guys are making that much easier and much more accessible and just really simplifying the whole investment process and kind of making it that much more welcoming for everybody. That was also pretty incredible.
Peter-Paul Van Hoeken: Thanks yeah, it's been an interesting journey because the challenge of course crowdfunding is one thing in penetration of crowdfunding It started with Kickstarter and Indie go and those and fund raiser in Canada is the traditional form. But when it involves Investments and Securities of course it becomes a totally different ball game because then you're dealing with you know securities regulation as well and so to bring those pieces together to you know the regulatory side of it and the technology side and then to basically launch that the platform has been definitely been in an interesting journey so far but as you say it's very exciting too for us to enable companies to raise capital from essentially from the public right? and to reach out to perhaps their existing customers and anyone that really is excited about what these companies are doing. And I'd like to be part of it now they can actually invest in these companies that for as little as you know a couple of hundred dollars you become a co-owner in a company. So yeah, it's an it's a very exciting phenomenon and it's on the rise worldwide but so. But now also in Canada.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah. No, I mean I absolutely agree with you. I mean now that startups are on a pedestal. I mean like if you still LinkedIn that long enough you definitely find like five or six companies that you find of interest and the fact that like now you can take it one step further and kind of go like oh hey you know like that company. I'll make up a company like the company that like the bird of Toronto or whatever. Right. Oh, like you love them, and like the CEO has an interesting story. You know hey with FrontFundr you can actually invest like a couple hundred dollars like you said in that company actually support their journey and actually support the vision that's pretty incredible. I'm going to put a pin into you mentioned regulations. I'll put a pin into that for a little bit later. You had an interesting journey. I mean I want to dig into that a little bit more. Could you just give us a little bit more detail of what your journey looked like the trials and tribulations because this isn't your first time at the rodeo and you guys are right now you guys are going through a massive raise. So, could you just talk a little bit more of the journey and everything leading up to the raise and currently what's kind of going on with the raise.
Peter-Paul Van Hoeken: Sure yeah. And it's a very excited to share and share that with the listeners is that we you know we are indeed. And we just launched our own race. I mean you know at the end of the day we are in an early stage company too. And we also need capital to grow. So. So why wouldn't we drink our own whiskey and use our own platform to raise capital. And that's exactly what we're doing. And we've done it indeed before twice already. So essentially listing FrontFundr on Frontfundr so listing ourselves on our own platform and opening it up for the public to invest. And we just launched our third campaign last Thursday on Valentine's Day along the lines of FrontFundr the heart of Canadian business and opening it up for everyone to participate in our company in our you know in our online platform. And for a minimum investment of five hundred dollars. So, we're. Yeah. We're really using our own solution and obviously fully believe in it. And it's exciting. It's also great to be actually on the client side a client's company side of our platform right. So really use our own solution to raise capital for own capital form our company. So, we are very excited about that. And we just launched it last Thursday as mentioned and we will close by the end of March. We will close this raise.
Manseeb Khan: I love that you guys a drink your old whiskey. I'm going to put that into the little description. I love that so much. It's interesting switch going from the actually running the platform to actually being on the platform that I mean kind of funny. It's very interesting yes. Yeah. It is interesting. Like you don't really. It's a very unconventional approach does not many it makes sense like it that makes sense. Hey like if you are a crowdfunding platform you guys are going to raise want to open up the opportunity for everybody that's been following your journey. Because now like startups actually have fans behind them which is really interesting. Right.
Peter-Paul Van Hoeken: Well yes absolutely. It is an interesting experience and it's kind of it's in a way almost a no brainer. And yes of course you're using your own platform right but it's it is indeed an intense experience to be sort of on the client side if you like and use our own platform also. It's a great experience because we've had done it twice before is that the you know as you just mentioned companies raising on our platform you're really going. You're going out there to potentially anyone who wants and invite them to participate in your company, but you need to work on that. Right. So, we always tell our client companies hey you know listing on FrontFundr is nuts. So that's the end all be all. Yeah exactly. You know you've got to support it as a company by you know sharing exciting new stories about your company about progress or milestones or any updates that to show that your company is doing well and growing and the things that people can get excited about. So, you want to share it with your potential investors and that's how you attract investors and then come to the platform. We've got a significant user pays no investor base but it's still always as we like to say. Kind of you know working in partnership with companies on our platform to make a successful raise right.
Manseeb Khan: No, I absolutely agree with you through. I mean I'm just thinking of putting your company just on FrontFundr and just like really crossing your fingers and just like saying your prayers and hopefully you're going to hit that target. It's really silly. You definitely have to put in the work into making the company of what you wear.
Peter-Paul Van Hoeken: Yeah. We often say we say look you're not outsourcing your funding to us. Yeah exactly. Yeah totally. Yeah that's it that's it's a great way to put it you know outsourcing your funding so to switch gears. You briefly mentioned regulations, and could you just turn you over to me. All right. My favorite topic. Yeah, I know I figure I figured you'd be the you should be the right person. To talk about it , when people think regulations, they think Peter-Paul FrontFundr. That's the guy the guy you ought to talk. I mean we definitely had a couple episodes back we talked about the regulatory burden that's currently going in on Canada and you do have you do play a significant role when it comes to the regulation side of Canadian fintech business. Could you just I mean like give us a little bit of you know like again for the people that may not know the work that your kind of doing could you just give us a little bit understanding of the work that your kind of doing when it comes to regulation and express your love for regulation.
Peter-Paul Van Hoeken: Sure. Love and hate. I guess yeah. No, it's. Well you see the fact that we're operating. First of all, we are as FrontFundr and other platforms that are the take on funds from form investors are you know are our investment in any investment business right. And the Securities Industry and that's regulated. And that in itself the fact that the industry is regulated is fine and is actually needed. And then we've seen that in the past with a little note that this is a very challenging industry. It can be sort of tempting and then so there are rules in place to regulate that. And you know I understand that I support it and certainly for us we are basically have we with FrontFundr or we you know we operate a platform where we enable anyone really to invest in particular particularly early or earlier stage companies right. So, and so that's and because we are inviting the public to not invest in these companies’ early stage or for defense companies but all private companies. It is very important that these investors that may have never invested before and ever since companies understand what they're doing and understand the risks of investing in early stage companies right. So, and that and regulation supports that and make sure that investors are informed about the potential returns and risks before they make an investment decision. So, the rules and it's been with FrontFundr we've been kind of pioneering this in Canada with several other market participants as well is to explore this new way of enabling companies to raise from the wider investor community. And typically, it was restricted to you know to Angel investors, VC’s, and other accredited investors so investors whether certain amount of wealth and that is only around 3 percent of the total population. So, 97 percent of the population has traditionally been looked out for from investing in private companies. Right. Well there is a huge group of course in that audience that 97 percent that do have the may not be accredited but they do have investable assets and they say that they are interested in investing in early stage companies today that they are excited about and think may do very well and they want to get a piece of the action so that. And so, because it's a whole new group of providing regulation is key now the regulation got, I haven't read it in kind of our review security regulations is a provincial matter. So we have provincial securities regulators in Canada and they have introduced rules to support investment crowdfunding in the last few years in Canada but there are some challenges with those rules and for start because we are dealing with multiple securities regulators have multiple rules have been introduced so we've we don't have an harmonized investment crowdfunding rules in Canada and that is challenging because there are differences in the rules to be implemented. They're kind of fragmentized which means that you know in B.C. different rules or different limits or you know ways for companies to raise capital through events crowd from a play I suppose to other provinces. And so those differences are clearly a challenge for both for companies that are looking to raise capital from the right investor community across Canada as well as for investors because investors in one jurisdiction may be able to invest in an early stage company but not in another jurisdiction. And so that said that that does cause challenges and therefore you know clearly we're not we're shoring up, tapping the full potential yet of what investment crowdfunding has to offer and put that in perspective Manseeb even with the fact that in other geography like in the U.K. and now also south the board in the US where they do have a federal investment crowdfunding rules it has already become basically mainstream financing. And so, and so even in Canada we run the risk of falling behind because there are rules that are in place are not being harmonized and therefore making make it difficult for market participants to use when.
Manseeb Khan: It seems like a no brainer. I like it this is like another no brainer thing of like hey if we're going to bring companies like FrontFundr or if we are a crowdfunding platform where everyone can because of an investor they should be able to get the same kind of protection know the same kind of rules like have some kind of regulation or regulatory body that kind of monitors it and not make it just like province specific right because like the fact that like I mean again it's probably cause it's very early. I mean you know like Canada has been. I've mentioned this more times than I can count but Canada has been always traditionally very conservative in the past. So, they're always willing to kind of like hold back on certain things when it comes to like well certainly when it comes like the regulatory body. So, I mean the fact that you said like the U.K. and the United States having already like rules and regulations they would have the ball rolling. It makes sense. I mean I think Canada is with amazing guys like you and like with Craig from who runs the NCFA here it's you guys are only going to get the ball rolling a lot faster and you guys are going to help bring awareness and it's just a matter of time before we have an overarching regulatory body that kind of covers like all of Canada and like any Canadian or any Canadian investor can kind of just like invest and if see a really amazing company in B.C. like you mentioned they can invest in that or if they see an amazing company in like Iqaluit that they really love they can invest in that as well.
Peter-Paul Van Hoeken: Right yeah. It is it is a matter of time. Absolutely. You know I think what is important and it's rather soon and later we've had these rules, these new investment rules in place now for over two years so there are clearly you know lessons learned in an experience with how these rules work and what doesn't work. So, you know we have enough informational and experience to move forward with indeed you know harmonizing the rules. And again I think you know defects we're not necessarily you personally I'm not even asking for necessarily one national regulator which will definitely take much more time but it is more about harmonizing rules particularly this stage of investment crowdfunding because those rules are particularly targeted to our purpose is to is to enable you know startups early stage companies that need financing to grow and thrive. You know the whole point is to provide those companies better access to capital. So, you know root of the fragmented rules currently exist make that difficult and therefore they raise the threshold for these companies to raise capital right. And at the least they're raising the cost of raising capital for these companies. And again, given the you know the huge potential that we've seen pretty materialize in other in other countries. Is that for these companies to tap this pool of capital. Very significant pool of capital is obviously is important and a huge potentially huge help to these companies to raise capital.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah, I mean it. And it really opens up like it opens a whole world of opportunity right for these early stage companies knowing that they don't really have to go the traditional route when it comes to investing right. I mean that's kind of why you're seeing a lot of companies now in like pretty much all 2018 you're seeing a lot of companies create their own ICO right because they don't want to go the traditional route of finding angel investors, finding VC's to help fund the company they're like hey we'll just create a coin and we'll just have like our users, our customers and our future customers raise money through that. Right and it just. Yeah. Like the fact that like a lot of early stage companies are kind of locked out of this huge potential market base of money that could really help them. It's kind of silly but like it’s going to be only a matter of time where more companies going to have access to that and just crowdfunding is going to be that much more incredible.
Peter-Paul Van Hoeken: Totally. So, the effort you know you referred early on to initiatives and also with the uncertainly and NCFA taking lead in in promoting you know with burden reduction of regulation and that that that's that will be that will be important and it will definitely help to expedite this process of getting to you know harmonized investment crowdfunding rules.
Manseeb Khan: Yes. And they're just going to get with the I mean harping back on the burden reduction. It's I mean once we once we get that all squared away it's going to give a lot more. It's going to give that much more breathing room. Right. I'll admit that's just one less thing that crowdfunding companies just did just to really worry about now they can actually focus a little bit more on like you test out your product drink your own whiskey and make it as incredible for investors to come in make it as seamless and just make the best product for the market.
Manseeb Khan: So yeah. So, it's an opportunity for some investment crowdfunding enables companies not only to attract the funding they need to grow but it's also an opportunity for these companies to create awareness around their company and engage with the wider investor provider community by offering an opportunity to invest in their company. So, it's a kind of a combined funding and marketing exercise as well. So essentially by inviting the community to invest in your company you are able to share in the upside, but you also create a whole community of brand champions that literally have an invested interest because they invested in the company to you know to talk about your company and to share in their in their networks right. So, the companies that that do very well on our platform are companies that understand that and recognize the value of going out there to community not only to capital need but also to create awareness around throughout our company.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah no I absolutely agree with you. I mean the best of the best kind of brand champions to have would be investors right because they know your product. they know you in and out. They know your story in and out. And the fact that they can kind of show that to their network and just like it just starts spreading out more and more awareness. I mean that's the best kind of PR. More or less than you can really ask for.
Peter-Paul Van Hoeken: Absolutely. Yeah.
Manseeb Khan: So, I mean aside from the raise is there anything that's really top of mind for you that you're really excited about in 2019.
Peter-Paul Van Hoeken: Well I am you know given a view of where we are today and the successes with the investment crowd from what we've seen in across the globe basically it's exciting to see that this in some in some countries it's already case right where it already has become mainstream financing. So, the fact that we've unlocked huge pool of capital for early stage companies. To tap is very exciting. And again, we've got some work to do here in Canada certainly on there on the regulatory side to make to remove unnecessary barriers to and that enables us to also accelerate growth investment crowdfunding in Canada. And so. So, we've come a long way and there is there is more work to be done. But I'm I see 2019 as I in a year where investment professionals from Canada. Can really sort of push through and become you know head towards becoming a mainstream source of financing as well.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah. No, I mean I'm very excited for crowdfunding to really just be that big be another channel for companies to really grow and to really grow and prosper. I don't know if you can answer this question but so with like after the raise what we can essentially expect from Frontfundr. I mean when people think a raise there's usually a purpose behind it so like say Frontfundr or hits the target and what can investors from Frontfundr can expect afterwards.
Peter-Paul Van Hoeken: Great. Yeah. Oh, great question. Absolutely. We're obviously raising capital because we want to grow it takes the company to the next level. And so, for us that means that we basically know we've proven the concept in Canada. We've closed over 30 successful raises on our platform and we are now really, we already operating from coast to coast but really now at a stage where we are going to take it to the next level build out the platform nationally and also expand in the let's say the private market. So, we started with smaller capital raises also to prove the concept and demonstrate that it is it is possible to raise funds from the public basically. And now we're going to expand in terms of you know taking on companies that are still private companies that are in later stage companies that are looking for growth and expansion capital. And so, we're diversifying into a lot of different stages of development of companies and those companies you know they're there first and then still need money to take it take it to the next to the next level and expand. So, we're bringing on those companies and it also enables us on the investor side of our platform to offer our investor clients you know more opportunities for diversification so they can invest in earlier stage companies that are really in the early days of proven concept to later stage companies typically already generating revenues that will be have a different risk profile. So, it enables investors to create a portfolio if you like in companies in different stages of development so that's on the on the road map. And now that we've proven our concept also going to take front runners and makes leverage terminals getting the word out there. So, promoting fund from there and marketing around our brand we kind of stepped it up. We're going to step up our activities to support companies successfully closing raises so we're going to build out of these companies with them with their campaign. And so that's now those are some key elements of what's what you can definitely expect in the next the next 12 months for us. And I mean ultimately, we are we want to build out our positioning in Canada and we want to make that platform better as well. So, part of the use process also going into further developing our technology platform and essentially making it easier for companies to build their campaigns on our platform and for investors to make the entire investment process as you know as smooth as possible. So those are some key elements of what we're looking to do with the proceeds of this round.
Manseeb Khan: I mean I'm excited to be able to invest in like later stage companies that I think that seems very super enticing that in and of itself I'd like not only can invest in companies very early on but you can actually invest in companies in later on stages to have a little bit more proven track record like that. I'm excited for the for the future of a Frontfundr. So, with that I'm just gonna I'm just gonna wrap it up. Ok. So, what would be the best way for the audience to either reach you Peter Paul or Frontfundr would it be through email, Twitter, Snapchat, like smoke signal, Raven, carrier pigeon what would be the best way for the audience and potential future investors to reach out to you guys.
Peter-Paul Van Hoeken: Yeah absolutely. So. Well the best way to get in touch with us and learn more about what we're doing is to go to our Web site Frontfundr dot com and all the information is there you can explore you know learn how it works. You can explore investment opportunities obviously also learn about our own capital raise right now. So, I would say that's the best way to get in touch with us. We always also active on Twitter Facebook Linked In and so it's very easy to find us. But I would say visit our Web site and an explore sign up so we can keep in keeping in touch with you and keep you I'll keep you posted on the on what's happening at Frontfundr. And yeah that's the that's the best way frontfundr dotcom.
Manseeb Khan: Thank you so much for staying with me today and I'm super excited to have you back on when you guys close around and start taking on more later stage companies.
Thank you. Thanks, Manseeb thanks very much.
Outro : you've been listening to fintech Fridays brought to you by NCFA and partners. Tune in weekly for the latest fintech Friday podcast by subscribing to this channel. The National crowdfunding and FinTech Association of Canada is a non-profit actively engaged with social and investment fintech sectors around the globe and provide education research industry stewardship services and networking opportunities to thousands of members and subscribers. For more information please visit and see if a Canada dot org. Oh yea.
The National Crowdfunding & Fintech Association (NCFA Canada) is a financial innovation ecosystem that provides education, market intelligence, industry stewardship, networking and funding opportunities and services to thousands of community members and works closely with industry, government, partners and affiliates to create a vibrant and innovative fintech and funding industry in Canada. Decentralized and distributed, NCFA is engaged with global stakeholders and helps incubate projects and investment in fintech, alternative finance, crowdfunding, peer-to-peer finance, payments, digital assets and tokens, blockchain, cryptocurrency, regtech, and insurtech sectors. Join Canada's Fintech & Funding Community today FREE! Or become a contributing member and get perks. For more information, please visit: www.ncfacanada.org
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Financial Post | James McLeod | Feb 9, 2019
The Innovation, Science and Economic Development Minister gives the Financial Post an early look at Ottawa’s report card on innovation that will be released next weekNavdeep Bains wants Canadians to know that things are happening. Lots of things. The Innovation, Science and Economic Development Minister has a big job on his hands, hauling Canada’s economy into the 21st century by embracing artificial intelligence and a panoply of digital technologies to boost productivity and keep us globally competitive.
But the federal government’s innovation agenda is still very much a work in progress. One of its pillars, the five marquee superclusters spaced evenly across the country, is mostly just an idea at this point, although $950 million in funding is beginning to flow. Does Canada feel more innovative than it did four years ago? Are we future-proofing our economy and seizing the jobs of tomorrow?
Bains certainly thinks so and that belief will probably be part of the Liberal’s pitch to voters when the country goes to the polls later this year. Next week, he will release a 100-page government report called Building a Nation of Innovators that mostly serves as a collection of the various policies, programs, plans and funding mechanisms the government has undertaken under the auspices of innovation.
In advance of the report’s release, Bains sat down with the Financial Post to talk about innovation and the economy.
FP: With the Innovation Nation series we’ve been doing, one of the themes that is emerging is that Canada has a real opportunity to seize the future economy. But we may be missing that opportunity if we’re not really proactive. We could be falling behind. As a country, are we innovative enough?
BAINS: Well, I beg to differ a bit. I think we have turned the corner. I think we are starting to create this culture of innovation in Canada where we have an economy that works for everyone. The key part is that it’s benefiting the many, not just a few, and it’s creating good quality jobs. And we’re really focused on making sure that it’s also inclusive, that it benefits people living in rural Canada, that it benefits young people who are getting coding. That’s really our goal.
FP: In reading through Building a Nation of Innovators it seems like it’s mostly looking back at the last two or three years since the Innovation and Skills Plan. Is this an election (campaign) thing?
BAINS: This is a report back to Canadians. In 2015, we said, look, we realize the economy is struggling. We put forward a plan and said we’re going to invest in a set of policies and programs to really benefit many Canadians and have it work for many Canadians. And so this is a report to Canadians on what those investments look like. What does it mean for Canadians living in Toronto, or if you’re in Red Deer? It’s telling Canadians, we made these investments. We ran on a campaign to invest in Canadians, to invest in their skills, to invest in companies so they can grow. We’re highlighting those in tangible ways in communities across the country.
FP: That does sound like campaigning.
BAINS: No, it’s a report card, because people need to know as a government you made promises, are you living up to those promises? And what does it mean to them, to their communities, for their own prospects and for their kids’ prospects? The speed and scope of change is phenomenal, and that creates anxiety and concerns that Canadians have. And we’re dealing with that and saying, look, we want you to succeed.
FP: How do you manage that pace of change? The people who are losing their jobs at the Oshawa GM plant are not going to start coding iOS apps overnight. How do you make sure people aren’t left behind as you make the shift?
BAINS: Well, that’s a key part. It’s really about making sure the economy, as I said, works for everyone. We’re promoting lifelong learning. Coding is an example to teach young kids critical skills, problem solving, how to work in teams, understand and develop digital literacy. But we also have programs for individuals mid-career. If there’s a change in their work, they can go to school through a grant, they can go to school with an interest-free loan and get the digital skills that they need.
FP: But do you actually believe that the people who lose their jobs to automation or shifts in global supply chains will take up coding and pursue those kinds of jobs?
BAINS: It’s not about coding only. That’s just one example. We recognize that all these sectors in every region are going through a major transformation. It’s about making sure people have the broad skill sets they need for those job opportunities.
FP: Why is the government’s responsibility so broad in this? It’s striking in reading the Building a Nation of Innovators report that there’s money for fundamental research, incubators, scale-ups, every stage along the way. Why does the government need to be dragging the economy into innovation? Can’t we just get out of the way and let this happen?
BAINS: We’re in a race. We’re competing with other jurisdictions. We want to level the playing field. Do you think China is getting out of the way? You think Europe is getting out of the way? You think the United States is getting out of the way? No, they’re all playing an active role. Why would we take a hands-off approach? The Conservatives clearly presented that as an option in 2015 — that laissez-faire approach. But it’s about creating the conditions of success for Canadians to get more job opportunities and, more importantly, for companies to grow and stay here in Canada.
FP: Something as simple as educating businesses on the importance of intellectual property — teaching them that if you’re going to exist in the 21st century, you need to have intellectual property — seems pretty basic. What do you think it says about the country that we need something like that?
BAINS: It really is a partnership model. It’s not about us dictating this. It really reflects what we heard from Canadian businesses, academics, researchers, different communities from across the country before we came forward with the Innovation and Skills Plan. Our objective is to really help those businesses understand the value, because for every company that promotes IP, for example, they on average pay 16 per cent more to their workers. For us, it’s about better-quality jobs.
FP: But if the preponderance of our small and medium-sized companies don’t understand IP, if the culture just doesn’t get that, isn’t that a massive problem?
BAINS: That’s the thing we’re trying to accomplish, really create this culture of innovation, saying we want a country full of innovators.
FP: We’ve been looking into the superclusters as part of our Innovation Nation project. They have been in the works for quite a while, but, still, I don’t think a lot of people really know what these things look like. And in a couple cases it’s a bit of a mess …
BAINS: It’s about jobs. It’s a job magnet, and it’s about the jobs of today and the jobs of tomorrow. And really, fundamentally, what did we do? We used our convening power to bring businesses together — large, but primarily a lot of small businesses — breaking down the silos, promoting collaboration and saying, look, work together to solve problems.
The National Crowdfunding & Fintech Association (NCFA Canada) is a financial innovation ecosystem that provides education, market intelligence, industry stewardship, networking and funding opportunities and services to thousands of community members and works closely with industry, government, partners and affiliates to create a vibrant and innovative fintech and funding industry in Canada. Decentralized and distributed, NCFA is engaged with global stakeholders and helps incubate projects and investment in fintech, alternative finance, crowdfunding, peer-to-peer finance, payments, digital assets and tokens, blockchain, cryptocurrency, regtech, and insurtech sectors. Join Canada's Fintech & Funding Community today FREE! Or become a contributing member and get perks. For more information, please visit: www.ncfacanada.org
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NCFA Canada | Feb 8, 2019

About this episode: On this Episode of the Fintech Friday's Podcast, our host Manseeb Khan sits down with Daryl Hatton the CEO of Connection Point. They chatted about microprojects, saving little girls and puppies and how to get hooked on Philanthropy. Enjoy!
Host: Manseeb Khan, NCFA, Fintech Fridays show host
Guest: DARYL HATTON, Founder and CEO, ConnectionPoint / FundRazr (linkedin)
BIO: Daryl Hatton, CEO of award winning international crowdfunding company FundRazr and of the innovative sponsored crowdfunding company Sponsifi has founded multiple start-ups and helped bring one to a successful NASDAQ IPO in 1999. He actively serves as board member or advisor to handfuls of other hot companies in Canada. In addition, he is a Director and Crowdfunding Ambassador for the National Crowdfunding Association of Canada. As a social media guy and frequent public speaker, his Twitter tagline includes words like “#KingOfGastown, entrepreneur, cardiac survivor, foodie, whisky nut, philosopher, mentor, father and friend.”
Intro: Welcome fintech Friday's a weekly podcast brought to you by the National Crowdfunding and Fintech Association of Canada and partners.Covering all things fintech block chain be AI and alternative finance.
Manseeb Khan: Daryl thanks so much for sitting down with me today. I mean I'm super excited to jump right into it.
Daryl Hatton: Happy to be here. We're going to have some fun.
Manseeb Khan: Awesome. So, could you just for the audience give us a little bit of who you are and essentially who and what Connection Point?
Is sure well I'm Daryl Hatton founder and CEO companies call connection point. We're best known for FundRazr which our enterprise crowdfunding platform is. I'm a serial entrepreneur, startup company took a public on Nasdaq way back in nineteen ninety-nine and we had one of the fastest growing companies in the U.S. that year. Fast forward a bunch of years and I left that and said gee do I want to do business again. And I started Connection Point six months in the day after I left the other company. And along the way we started to do fundraising. We learned a whole lot about the market. And here we are.
Manseeb Khan: Awesome. So, what made you kind of switch. Like so why crowdfunding ? Like this was I'm assuming this is early 2000s, right? Like you said you were essentially one of the OG's entrepreneurs out here. Yeah. Why crowdfunding ?
Daryl Hatton: It was actually 2008 and one of the things that we were looking to do is like I want to start this new business but because I was under an intellectual property rights deal with my previous company actually couldn't think about it really. And being careful about it didn't want to think about it while I was with the other company. So, six months in a day I now get free and out and I said OK what can I do. And it took from about September of that year until January to really figure out that I wanted to get into the social funding space. And the reason I was doing it was I was coaching a lacrosse team and I was looking for ways to get paid and to raise money for my team. So, I collect some fees and take some donations because we had a 50/50 turnouts and all that kind of stuff. And I had a little epiphany. I was trying to also get the guys out to practice and I was sending out emails. Nobody was showing up, but I started a Facebook group and posted the date, time of practice and I had a 100 percent attendance. The first time I did that, and a light bulb went on and said Hey can I get them to pay their fee like that. And FundRazr was born. So, it really was all about trying to scratch my own itch and in the early days as we developed the idea of paying the fees really didn't take off very well. But the idea of collecting donations went nuts and that's what we built the company around.
Manseeb Khan: Awesome. So, could you still sticking on the early days I know on our call before we even started the episode you compare like the early days of crowdfunding and how it's very parallel to now the early days of crypto and Block chain. Could you just go a little bit more detailed about that?
Daryl Hatton: Oh, for sure yeah. I mean when we started crowdfunding no one knew what to call it. And I even had the opportunity to buy crowdfunding dot.com as a domain name and was given some advice by a bunch of people in the industry going I never nobody ever wanted to call it that. Yeah right. Oops. So, you know the interesting things that happened at that time, but we were really struggling in the beginning to try and talk about this intersection of social media and of finance technology and of marketing technology all into one platform that becomes a crowdfunding campaign. So, we used the word crowdfunding a whole lot. And if you went to the crowdfunding conferences everyone was talking crowdfunding and to the people who were not in the industry, they would come in they hear us and they're going. What the hell are you guys talking about. Like you're not making sense. All you're doing is dropping these buzzwords all the time and one of the things that I hear going on now at crypto conferences and block chain and the whole area of the new innovation and fintech around this is the same thing. There's a ton of terminology. Ask an entrepreneur what they do. And they'll have you know they'll talk about how they've got this unique twist on what they do with block chain to do Dut, Da Dut, Da. One of the lessons we learned from the crowdfunding world is can you explain what you do without ever using your buzzword. Can you explain the value of your business to somebody and have them get it? Why it's important. And why you're going to win without ever using the words. So, for any crowdfunding or any sorry crypto or block chain entrepreneur right now can you tell me why your business will be successful without ever using the words crypto or block chain or any of the terminology around it. What's the business value that you're delivering to the customer. And why is that really important. It may be a technical function that you're delivering but there's a business reason and they're not just a technology reason. And the companies that win are the ones that figure out how to communicate that business reason and build the technology to solve it. Big learning what we had over that time is just you know kind of buzzwords are cool and let make you feel like you're in the crowd but stop it. Start talking about your business and the value and the customers may see a little bit more boring. But it's got a way better higher chance of success.
Manseeb Khan: No, I absolutely agree with you. And I guess I mean like you took a misstep and you said crowdfunding. I think crowdfunding is still in that same conversation. Now you want to be able to kind of give the elevator pitch with like your industry jargon. Right. You want to be able to like to go to like roll up to any random person at Starbucks and kind of like hey this is actually my business does sound like a good idea right.
Daryl Hatton: Yeah. And you know it's easy to stumble into. I mean as I just did it you know it's a shortcut for us to try and take a set of concepts that we have in our head and communicate more easily to other people who also have similar concepts. And it’s just good practice to try and do it without that. Yeah. Absolutely. It's kind of fun once you get into it because you get to laugh at yourself a lot. Keep taking a shortcut.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah. I can absolutely see that see that. So, you guys focus on an enterprise crowdfunding could you just explain a little bit like why is that different than the Kickstarter's and the Indigo's goes out there.
Daryl Hatton: Well yeah it might help to kind of hear the path we've got to with that. And so, let me give you a little bit of background. When we started our crowdfunding platform, we were all about personal funding. Helping people raise money because they had cancer, they had a tragedy, they had a car accident something happened in their lives and they needed emergency funds. And the best way to do that was to talk to the friends and family and get them to the money to help because those are the people, we're most invested in helping you. And it worked, it saved babies and it helped people recover from car accidents and then help people deal with medical bills especially in the United States and along the way. You know we one of the ways we had to communicate was to use Facebook to share and as we were doing that some non-profits came along, and they said you know we love this kind of toolset but it's kind of weird to use it as a person. So, could we use it under the name of our organization. So, we start. Or the name of our charity. So, we added features in to make it so that you could do a personal campaign or charitable campaign. And that ended up you know giving us a whole new set of requirements but a whole new set of customers. And then Kickstarter the time was doing a good job and Indiegogo was starting to do more in funding of entrepreneurial style projects or creative projects. And we ended up getting asked hey can we find our project with you because you guys seem to be really good at social sharing. So now we've got three constituent groups of customers personal, nonprofit and now entrepreneurial or creative and over the period of time as we built out all the features for all of those it started to become what we call an enterprise crowdfunding platform. And the reason for that is that we're solving a lot of the problems for those customers at a much more deep level about things like team` communications around running your crowdfunding campaign. Can you have a lot of people on your team both as managers. Which is pretty easy for most apps to think about but then also as things like promoters. Can you hire somebody on to the team whose job it is to go in and promote you to influencers in the industry and track the results and help figure out whether or not they're helping you raise money for your campaign. So, we call it an enterprise crowdfunding platform right now because the basics of what a crowdfunding campaign are have morphed into. In our case over 10 different ways to do campaigns and some of them are very charitable focused. Some of them are very personal focused and some of them are very much a business focus.
Manseeb Khan: I LOVE THAT! I kind of want you to tell the story that you told me over the phone of that father reaching out to you about as a little girl and like how the example that you use like some people create a business to create a business. Some people kind of fall into the business. Can you can you tell that story a little because I loved it so much.
Daryl Hatton: Yeah. You know one of the things people look at us with FundRazr and there is we've got the different brands we'll talk about this a little bit as well is that there's different ways to do crowdfunding. And when people look at our technology, they get confused by it. So, we actually give it different brand names to help separate the customers apart from each other. Funny enough. But the story that you're referring to when we first launched in it, we kind of have to do a relaunch of the platform in July of 2010 after surviving a near-death experience with Facebook kicking the chair out from underneath us and we'll talk about that maybe too. But basically. So, when we started the campaign and we're focused on these personal donations and my goal in starting this was to build a business. I wasn't trying to go save the world. I wasn't trying to raise money for charitable causes and that was because it was a good thing to do for the planet. I was trying to build a business and we were really struggling. Trying to help ourselves understand why customers were using this and what they were really trying to do. And it feels now like we were just so totally naive about what was going on. But so, we launched in July of 2010 and we're going along we're watching this incredible growth happening. All these people are using these campaigns and we're really focused on how we help them raise more money but not really thinking about why they're raising more money. And then we got a Christmas card, the Christmas card was from a family that had been living off the grid in Hawaii. I think there was maybe people living on the beach kind of thing. He got out of the U.S. military they'd hooked up as a couple they'd had a little girl and you know so they didn't have. They were kind of dropped out a little bit to the system. I think they didn't have health insurance that kind of thing. And they discovered that their little girl had been diagnosed with childhood leukemia. So, in the race to try and figure out how to save her again no health insurance in the US there for that. They found out that the military hospital in San Diego would take her because he'd been in the military, but they had to get the girl there A.S.A.P. because childhood leukemia is a very fast-moving disease. So, they put up a campaign or a FundRazr and they raised that I think it was thirty-five hundred dollars. They needed to get the flights. Like you know right now and given the low accommodation when they hit San Diego and they took a couple of days and they got her there and when they got her there the doctor said if you hadn't got her here today or tomorrow, she probably would have died. And so, they sent us a thank you card saying thanks for helping save our daughter's life. We didn't I mean that just smacked us hard. We had no idea that really that was kind of an end result if you will. The business value of what we delivered wasn't raising money. It was helping save somebody's life or helping save a puppy dog or helping someone recover from an accident. Those are the things the real value we're delivering it wasn't collecting money in a social environment. And so that epiphany just really changed how we looked at the business. And you know we still are a profit-making business, really low on the profit side because we're trying to scale it and it's a harder market than people might think. But it is you know there is that nice benefit that we actually have this big business value. That's a very personal value in a very charitable value in the background and that's a fantastic way to come to work every morning and think about what you do for the day is you help people save probably dogs and little girls.
Manseeb Khan: Yeah, I mean that's probably the best customer testimonial I've probably ever heard possibly ever if not in a very long time. You did briefly before you jumped in the store you talked about how you broke down your business in to different kind of brands could you talk a little bit more about that and how that ties it to you guys scaling because like you said you guys are not as quote unquote profitable because you're trying to scale. Could you talk a little bit more of the challenges scaling and being a crowdfunding service?
Daryl Hatton: Started connection point and we knew that. I don't know. I just had this hunch that the technology that we were going to build would have more than one use case in the marketplace because really, it's a marketing system. And so what kind of problem are you trying to solve with it as a marketing system was a personal? Was it corporate? Was it charitable? So we started a FundRazr with the idea that it was the general-purpose platform for crowdfunding using a donations or a rewards type model. So, donations model being your traditional charitable thing. GoFundMe is a good example of that. The rewards model is the Kickstarter or Indiegogo model where you're doing an all or nothing campaign and you're giving the donor some reward back. So that was really it took the majority of our focus and energy and as a result we tended to lump more customers into that pile than we may should have because you know it was just more convenient just as kind of keep them focused on the one brand for a while. But over the last couple of years we've really noticed that a couple of different use cases are showing up that are worth separating them out from the main stream. So, it's all the same technology with a different skin on it and sometimes a little bit of a tweak to the feature set an example that is one of our brands we call CoCoPay. CoCoPay stands for collaborative community payments and it's designed to be used by businesses to allow or enable their customers to use crowdfunding to help them finance the purchase of the product or service. That's a big one mouthful but if you imagine I don't know if you remember. I don't know if we had this chat but there's the company in the States called in Enchroma and they do glasses that you can put on and if you're colorblind it'll help show you colors for about 80 percent of the people who are colorblind that put them on. It's really emotional to not have seen color. And now to see it. I mean this world is full of color, but the glasses are you know mildly expensive there between if you do it right, you're probably going to get two pairs of them they're going to be between five hundred to one thousand dollars and some people can't afford that. So if you go to the Enchroma web site there's a spot on their site where you can use our technology to start a crowdfunding campaign that will with a Enchroma branding tell the story using Enchroma glasses and help you communicate that to your friends and family and co-workers and others in your social network and help you buy the glasses. Now it might be for you but one of the most common use cases is to buy them as a gift for somebody else. So, a classroom we'll get together buy them for their teacher and then or someone will buy them for a military vet they had that happen. Not quite sure how they got there with colored blind, but they did. So that was really cool. And then you know they'll buy them for Grandpa because Grandpa has never had it always took care of the kids, got them go to college, got the grandkids going never really took the time to figure it out for himself or was it didn't have anything available. So, the family gets together buys Grandpa glasses that let him see color for the first time and the incredible folks tell you how to do it right to capture your YouTube moment. They say take a whole bunch of colorful balloons and take him outside somewhere and don't tell him what it's all about it just ask them to put all these cool looking sunglasses and they look cool stylish glasses and usually what happens is the glasses go on the glasses come off. The glasses go on glasses come off and whoever it is crying. And they because you know it's that it's a super emotionally, I get it and there's some guys that have just gone off on the oh god, Oh my God they're so funny. But the point is that by allowing the community to work together to buy something it may not seem like it's big a use case. But if you get into a lot of medical devices that are maybe ten thousand dollars because you need special Walker you need something that gives someone mobility. They may not be able to afford it right away but their friends and their family and their social networks would go let's fix that for them. Their good person we'll fix that for them and CoCoPay lets them you know safely raise the money and pay it to the company as opposed to paying it into the individual so that you don't have to worry about fraud and it's all or nothing so that if you don't raise enough money nobody's out you know you don't get halfway towards buying one of these things and now what do you do with all the money and refund it to everybody and take a few gets the payment companies you know you're kind of in a net loss for trying to do something good. So, it takes all the best of the crowdfunding technologies of all or nothing social sharing teamwork collaboration in our case you know branding of the company and puts it all together in a package that somebody can use to crowd finance a purchase. Is some idea of where it's the same technology? But if we're going to sell it to a company, they don't want to come to our Web site and see that we're raising, we're saving puppy dogs and little girls they're going how does this affect our business. Why am I doing that? And so, there's a dedicated site to CoCoPay to talk about its business value. But ninety-nine-point eight percent of the technology is the same as FundRazr.
Manseeb Khan: Mm hmm. I mean this does bleed into I guess my next question of corporate good right and how you're seeing. You've mentioned that in the phone call we have that how corporations are now not for the sake of oh hey we're going to go and plant trees just for the sake of planting trees. Now we're going to go and pick an issue that our customers or clients are very passionate about and then try to spearhead it and like the best example I can think of would be when Adidas and Nike decided to take all like ocean pollution plastic and remake it into sneakers because ocean pollution was something that both companies audiences were very passionate about. So, they created a sneaker behind it and that started this whole renewable shoe movement. Right. So why is or how is corporate got like corporate good better or better than the government initiatives that are going on or the charity initiatives or it is, or should we see it as more as like a tag on.
Daryl Hatton: One of the things I didn't say in the beginning. If you actually look at mission of what we have with Connection Point we're trying to well, we are We're reimagining philanthropy. And one of the reasons that we want to do that is that the hypothesis is that we can get causes, corporations and consumers to all work together to solve world funding problems because that everyone can have a win in that and the collective group of all of them also gets a win. So, for example you know you said it very well that consumers are now wanting to have their companies do more than just supply them the product. You know in the case of the shoe companies they saw an opportunity to not only sell shoes but to solve an environmental problem at the same time. And they knew through research that their consumers would really like that. That's got a kind of a social impact space. You talk about multiple bottom lines you know the bottom line I get a great pair of shoes from a brand that I love the story behind the shoes is fascinating and fantastic. You know these used to be junk in the ocean and they've turned it into look at these things these are amazing. And that at the same time that's reducing pollution in the ocean. So, the consumer there is driving that behavior because they are demanding more from their partners and the partners are interested in doing this because it builds loyalty with their customers. Their ability to go in and use the best things of what corporations can do which is communication at massive scale and the ability to actually execute on programs to change social problems and in some cases though they need to have something like a charity partner actually do some of that work for them especially when it gets into softer skills. So if you've got a company that's not about saving plastic but maybe helping with mental health or maybe helping with child poverty or food distribution or food safety quality for lower income families all sorts of things like that the corporation might want a partner with a charity for the charity deliver the work in the field but then be able to use the fact that they're supporting that charity as a story for their consumers saying hey you know we all care about this together. Why don't you buy our products? We work with this company and there's a trading of value that goes on in that system where they get money to the charity to do the work the consumer feels great because they know this charity is doing the work. And they may end up establishing a better relationship with the charity and they're more loyal to the company for buying that product. So, it I think it's one of the changes we're going to see in society in the next few years. Is this is going to become the standard way to do it. Because it takes advantage of the strengths of all three parties and we built a product around that that we call Sponsifi and Sponsifi designed to do the place where the company can even make an offer of to the donors or the contributors on how they might want to further support the cause. So again, getting that branding out there that says we're supporting this cause and helping the company get better value for the money that they can spend on it and a more measure of resolve. So that was a lot of words in there, but you know if you can take out the idea that basically cost corporation consumers are going to work together because they already are. We just want to make it easier to do and less expensive for the companies particularly. And I think we're going to see something else transform society.
Manseeb Khan: Yes. No absolutely that's kind of what crowdfunding is what one of the missions of crowdfunding is to make the world make it a better place right. If it's be that you're saving a little girl or you're saving a little puppy or cleaning the oceans right like though the of the whole part is especially with I mean millennials like me. We love to see that like corporations’ charities governments are taking more of an initiative to actually go after these social causes because these social causes are so near and dear to our heart. And now that companies are kind of using that maybe some could be as a marketing ploy some could because they actually truly believe in the said cause it's. Yeah. Crowdfunding. It's going to be very exciting in the years to come. So, with that what is the future of crowdfunding look like. And essentially what are you excited about in the space right. Are you excited that maybe in the future you might have like this block chain integration? I excited that you can start tokenization a lot of donations?
Daryl Hatton: There's lots in there. Let's just before we go there let's think about one thing around. You know I talked a lot about causes and what's going on there and a lot of entrepreneurs that might be listening to this are going here. But what has that applied to me. I don't know I'm just trying to startup and I want to get this product out there and I'm having trouble with funding it. So, one of the benefits of crowdfunding in here is also the fact that because it enables communities to work together to solve a funding problem that's basically the bottom line and what it does. Let's not worry about whether it's charitable or corporate or whatever but if we all can work together and help us work together on that. One of the side effect benefits of this is that businesses that need not have been able to start before because of lack of capital can take a community of interested customers/prospects and we'll be customers and use the model to help them preorder enough product that they can go through the R&D phase the initial production run and get the product into the hands of consumers who really want it. That's a social benefit because now we have a company that was created out of thin air literally and it's providing income and it's providing satisfaction to consumers and it's providing opportunity for people that live out some of their dreams and maybe change the world because they've got a better widget in some form. It's more efficient it's more friendly it's easier to use, it goes faster whatever the real benefit in there is those things are helping our society as well. And a lot of the entrepreneurs that are starting up campaigns right now are small companies are realizing that they have to have that kind of social responsibility aspect baked into their company for two reasons one to attract their customers. And I think this is actually way more important doesn't get enough press to attract their employees. If you want to work for nameless soulless company, you know big office tower why I am here every day. This sucks you know I don't enjoy my work I don't really feel like I'm making an impact or by the way we work for the company we're really clear the part of what we do is to help with this social problem or you know 10 percent of the proceeds of the profits from our company go to support the producers families who are helping us build this neat new eco backpack you know I don't know make up a story there but basically that feeling of going to work and having purpose which we discovered by accident is one of the key motivators for digital natives, millennials and gen Z to want to go to work and they will work really a ton of harder and put more of their life into their work when they feel like that work has got an impact on the planet. So, you can use crowdfunding as a way to help fund the idea. And for all entrepreneurs that are looking to start up a business there. It's a great way to get revenue into your company without having to give up ownership you know equity and securities. Crowdfunding is great but you are giving up. It's the most expensive money you'll ever get because it costs you a big chunk of your company in the future. But sometimes that's all you can do. So, you do it. But if you can fund it with some of these others and have that social tie in you can not only launch your product but build a company where people want to work and where you can have some real satisfaction to work home at the end of the day. So, I think there's a lot in there and that's one of the things I'm very excited about. You know that's part of future is now because it's just not evenly distributed. Well who is it. Who said that the future is has arrived it's not just evenly spread out? We can do that now and then to answer your question about some of the other technology you know what I think of crypto and block chain and much of that industry about is how we make things more transparent and make it easy for us to see kind of our thread that ties through the financial story of the organization. So, in the charitable world we look at this and say if you made a contribution to a cause to build wells in Africa. Which well in Africa did my money go to build in crypto being mechanism for kind of tracking where the value is with block chain being where did it deploy. What's the ledger of it seems like it's going to be a very interesting topic because when people make a donation they really want to know what good they did? And I can see some technology in there helping make that happen at the moment it's a bit of a geeky love because consumers aren't necessarily demanding that level of transparency, but it could be really cool once we have it because then they might start demanding it more once they know they can get it. So, I think there's lots of things will happen in our financial world because of this distributed ledger capability.
Manseeb Khan: And I think you'd like to harp on more of the transparency aspect. At some point I think people would be pretty excited to see that like oh hey I like that little girl that I donated 30 bucks to. You can kind of track it like how you track like your orders on Amazon right. At some point we'll probably get to like that level of transparency. really. Oh cool. They actually hit this goal or the next milestones that's like that's something to kind of look forward to and it's like it's maybe not gamifying it but like it's you know it just like fueling the fire of doing good.
Daryl Hatton: Your right on with that we actually do that now in FundRazr. We have a concept called micro project and we've been leading the industry and trying to talk about this transition from don't fund. I'll give me a really concrete example of this.
Manseeb Khan: No please do!
Manseeb Khan: There's a cause called One Girl Can that helps girls in Eastern Africa get an education because the founders of this cause were very successful in business and the couple he continued to run the business and she decided to run her foundation on the side of it and the foundation was about helping these girls get an education because they knew that the change in the quality of the life for them and even more so for the members of their community was so huge. So, what they were doing is they're building schools in Eastern Africa. And last year we said to them you know that's a major project to build the school. What if we broke it down into a whole series of micro projects? Let's talk about each of the girls that needs to go through these schools and what would be their life like if they were able to go. What are their hopes and dreams and aspirations and let's get people to fund them individually because in aggregate you're going to get enough money to do your funding for the school? And so, we call that micro projects dividing a major project down into the hundreds or thousands of small little projects and our technology is designed to make that really efficient. But now the interesting thing the stories that can come out of this imagine that you know you sign up to help Purdy one of the girls and she wants to be an engineer because we know that you signed up to fund just Purdy. We can send you updates on what's happening with just Purdy and her journey going through school. So, giving you that same kind of ongoing view into your social investment different you know you put in money but if you're looking for a social payback and not a financial payback. Letting you track Purdy progress we said our you know dream story here is that Purdy adds to her campaign because she's an adult she can do that a young adult but she gets out to her story saying guys I'm really nervous I'm going in for my final here. I really appreciate all the support you've given me to get to this point. M.M. You have an audience in North America around the world waited with bated breath and a little while later you get a thing going. I passed and happiness is going over North America. Because together they made a difference right. Yeah. So, it's that we're doing it now without having to have that level of transparency in the block chain you know to do that but maybe block chain help make it a little bit more precise a little more guaranteed. That you know what really happened. Somebody just didn't read a verdict. You know the janitor there you want to know that you actually get the good work. Yeah. It brings up other stuff like how do we find overhead? But that a different problem to solve.
Manseeb Khan: I love the fact that how. Like your example really solidifies the. It takes a village to raise a child. You're going to like hopefully in the future you're going to see like actual like villages or like digital villages helping raise children like in Africa or like Syria or when they have you only got like following that story it's kind of like its kind of like a vlog.
Daryl Hatton: So, it's well you know I think one of the other projects we're looking at is to fund portable solar powered charging stations in for villages in Africa. And would people be willing to donate to help make that happen if they can hear the stories of the villagers lives that have been transformed. Because when they have power they can study. The kids in the village and study at night without having to burn kerosene in their homes which is so hard on their health and is expensive. So, if they could end up having light that will let them on their laptop or their phone or their board the tablet, they're starting to get some technology but they don't even have power yet. Giving them a way to have power, would consumers around the world be willing to support some of that and in you know in exchange for the stories that are going to come out of that village and the impact it's going to create. And if you take a kind of an interesting view of philanthropy as a form of entertainment it's a discretionary spend like it's we just choose to spend it. But some people are willing to spend small amounts of money to see that that result happen more than wanting to go to a movie or wanted to go up for you know a lot of people say hey I'll give up a cup of coffee discretionary spend element every day for a month just to make sure Purdy gets through example right. That's philanthropy as entertainment. And I think that's one area we're heading to as well.
Manseeb Khan: I love it. Philanthropy is entertainment. I can.
Daryl Hatton: We're reimagining philanthropy. We've got to do that. You know you have basically all of this it is brain chemicals where you're buying endorphins and oxytocin when you make a contribution. That's how warm lovely feeling you get when you feel like you've helped somebody is oxytocin. It's the brain hormone and funnily enough it you know if you give lots of little gifts you get way more of it than if you give one big gift. So, in some ways I mean we're brain drug pushers. We're trying to get you hooked on philanthropy and crowdfunding is your gateway drug. So just be careful.
Manseeb Khan: I'm definitely using on the podcast description of crowdfunding is your gateway drug to philanthropy.
Daryl Hatton: Philanthropy is entertainment. God this story is writing itself right.
Manseeb Khan: Oh yeah. It really is. It really it really is. So too.
Manseeb Khan: I mean hey do you have any additional things you want to throw in like any anything that the audience should be aware of either. Things that you guys are doing at your company or thing other things that are going on in the crowdfunding space.
Daryl Hatton: I think one of the things that I would love more entrepreneurs to know in this is that if we're in the crowdfunding world together you know I talked a lot about how it takes community and I think first startup community in especially in FinTech space and others it is really important for us to think about how we help each other as opposed to how we're just always in competitive mode or selfish mode because it's amazing the amount of help that we've had on the way and the amount of help that now I can help muster for other startup companies. I'm currently advising 20 different startups and you know I've got a nice network that I've built up over the years that they can count on to help them. This working together thing which we learn through doing our crowdfunding business is one of the keys to actually making your business successful. And I really encourage a lot of the entrepreneurs to think about that that when they're thinking about how they ask for help. Also ask how they can help, and it changes the conversation dramatically. And you know you get much better results much faster.
Manseeb Khan: So, to wrap this up will be the best way for the audience to either contact you personally and or Connection Point. Do we snap you? Do we tweet you? do we e-mail you? Smoke signal? What we'll be the best way to contact you guys?
Daryl Hatton: Best way to hit me find me on LinkedIn. Daryl Hatton mention the show or else I might ignore you because so many sales guy is trying to hit me up that way and you can FundRazr.com.
Manseeb Khan: Awesome Darryl. Thank you so much for sitting down today. I mean and thank you for opening our minds to crowdfunding and making the world a much better place.
Daryl Hatton: Thanks for having me talk soon.
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